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Triticale hay ?
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NeNe
Posted 2009-12-16 11:57 AM (#46086)
Subject: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 127

Sooo my daughter's babysitter is feeding her horse triticale hay. The babysitter was asking me questions about it and honestly I had never heard of feeding it to horses as their only source of forage. I have googled it and from what I am reading I would not feed it to my horses but don't want to tell this person it is junk just because I have no knowledge on this particular subject. I have never gotten really into the grain hays and just don't have a clue.
The mare she owns is right around 20 years old and is used for fairly light riding.
Opinions on this stuff?
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slidinstop
Posted 2009-12-16 12:27 PM (#46093 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?



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Posts: 9399

So my first thought is WHY would anyone feed something to their animals they've not bothered to educate themselves on???  Mind boggling.

In general, I would avoid hays made from grain crops like oats, wheat, barley, rye or triticale. These have been selected for high starch content and when cut in flower stage these are full of sugar held ready for use by the developing seed.  Depending upon what stage it was cut in and the type of grain crop is fed as a hay, the NSC (non structural carbs) can be upwards of 35%.

It's like playing Russian Roulette with laminitis.

And if they're feeding her any sort of sweet feed on top of it... well just add another bullet.

ETA:  Intolerance to sugar may develop in aging horses, just as it does in humans. A study of geriatric horses (Ralston, 1988) found over 70% over the age of 20 had signs of altered glucose metabolism.  In addition to the new research showing that high insulin can cause laminitis  (Asplin, Sillence, 2007 et al).


Edited by slidinstop 2009-12-16 12:37 PM
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cpcutter02
Posted 2009-12-16 12:33 PM (#46095 - in reply to #46093)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?




Posts: 83

Location: IL
we fed it to cattle and a few horses in CO. were i lived and had no problem but they had no sweet feed. when they were feed there was snow cover and when snow was gone they were back to pasture. but it does like any feed time that it was cut is most important. some people are lucky i have seen horses feed off of a round bale and get sick to that some never got sick and that is all the horse new. i would get a feed sample and see what your feed man or woman would say
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Poppy
Posted 2009-12-16 12:54 PM (#46098 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 500

Location: on the beach in Oregon
I'm with Slidey.........
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NeNe
Posted 2009-12-16 12:58 PM (#46099 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 127

I think this hay thing started with this woman's husband. Someone he knew said they could get it really cheap and so it ended up getting bought for the horse. She just told me about it yesterday but couldn't remember the name of the hay and then brought me some this morning to look at when I dropped my daughter off. I had never even seen stuff like that before. It was really thick stemmed and had lots of foxtail looking things in it.
This is the woman's first horse. I am trying REALLY, REALLY hard to steer her in the right direction without coming across as a know it all.
If it is ok Slidey I am going to copy and paste your reply in an email to her.
She has had this mare for a few months and only for the last two has the mare been in a self care situation. I know the mare is starting to have some issues and that is why I am being asked for my opinion...her urine has gotten really dark from what I could see in the picture the babysitter took to show me.

Edited by NeNe 2009-12-16 1:03 PM
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cpcutter02
Posted 2009-12-16 1:01 PM (#46100 - in reply to #46099)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?




Posts: 83

Location: IL
if hard and stemmy i would be afraid to get caught in throat or hurting her insides specially being an older mare.
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NeNe
Posted 2009-12-16 1:04 PM (#46102 - in reply to #46100)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 127

cpcutter02 - 2009-12-16 1:01 PM

if hard and stemmy i would be afraid to get caught in throat or hurting her insides specially being an older mare.



I was thinking the same especially since foxtails can cause so much damage to any horse.
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cpcutter02
Posted 2009-12-16 1:09 PM (#46104 - in reply to #46102)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?




Posts: 83

Location: IL
well i wasnt thinking of the head but of the stems i have heard of wheat straw poking the somach wall have not seen that tho but i get gun shy so i use oat straw at foaling time. the triticale we fed out west was not so stemmy so it did not bother to much.
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cajunreiner
Posted 2009-12-16 1:09 PM (#46105 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 3640

Location: swamps of Louisiana
hmmm, this is totally off topic because I have no clue about triticale hay, we really don't have that around here, so I was googling just a little bit for my own FYI and I stopped when I came across studies from the 1970's done by my great uncle about triticale forage and beef cattle.  Kinda neat to see his name!  I never knew what his research really consisted of, he was kinda hard to talk to at times, he was way over my head with most things, brilliant man but not really in this world if ya know what I mean.   Plus I was just a kid back then but later I used to get into deep genetics discussions with one of his sons.

I haven't read his research yet, because it kinda startled me to see it.  But I do know he would buy his meat from my grandfather (his brother.)  These were cattle who were raised totally on the same grass my horses now graze. 
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slidinstop
Posted 2009-12-16 1:14 PM (#46106 - in reply to #46105)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?



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Posts: 9399

You're welcome to it Ne!

Did the urine color change with being fed this hay? 

And you might want to let her know that better quality hay which costs more is still cheaper than a trip to the vet any day of the week.


Edited by slidinstop 2009-12-16 1:17 PM
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NeNe
Posted 2009-12-16 2:00 PM (#46116 - in reply to #46106)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 127

slidinstop - 2009-12-16 1:14 PM

You're welcome to it Ne!

Did the urine color change with being fed this hay? 

And you might want to let her know that better quality hay which costs more is still cheaper than a trip to the vet any day of the week.



My guess would be yes, absolutely. She has been on this hay for at the most maybe two months now and the sitter just asked me about her urine yesterday.
I am really trying to get her to understand how important a horses diet is. It sucks that things only get brought up when there is already a problem.
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NeNe
Posted 2009-12-16 2:01 PM (#46117 - in reply to #46105)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 127

cajunreiner - 2009-12-16 1:09 PM

hmmm, this is totally off topic because I have no clue about triticale hay, we really don't have that around here, so I was googling just a little bit for my own FYI and I stopped when I came across studies from the 1970's done by my great uncle about triticale forage and beef cattle.  Kinda neat to see his name!  I never knew what his research really consisted of, he was kinda hard to talk to at times, he was way over my head with most things, brilliant man but not really in this world if ya know what I mean.   Plus I was just a kid back then but later I used to get into deep genetics discussions with one of his sons.

I haven't read his research yet, because it kinda startled me to see it.  But I do know he would buy his meat from my grandfather (his brother.)  These were cattle who were raised totally on the same grass my horses now graze. 



Hey that is really neat!!! What was his name? I have a lot more reading to do and would love to look up some of his stuff.
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Tanquery man
Posted 2009-12-16 3:43 PM (#46123 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 3844

Location: Island of misfit toys
My buddy in CA where I boarded and broke colts was growing his own oat hat and splitting it with alfalfa to his horses, along with feeding it to his roping steers. Those were the slickest, fattest horses I've ever seen.


I'd love to get some oat hay up here. But bluestem/lespedeza is ok too....
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terri s
Posted 2009-12-16 4:24 PM (#46124 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 1813

Location: Kansas
So what does an oat hat look like?
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Tanquery man
Posted 2009-12-16 4:33 PM (#46126 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 3844

Location: Island of misfit toys
You just made the list flatlander...

Edited by Tanquery man 2009-12-16 4:34 PM




(oat hat.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments oat hat.jpg (9KB - 0 downloads)
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slidinstop
Posted 2009-12-16 4:50 PM (#46127 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?



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Posts: 9399

Hee hee!
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cpcutter02
Posted 2009-12-16 6:39 PM (#46130 - in reply to #46126)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?




Posts: 83

Location: IL
now now up here in the north we make some good oat hay and they call us flat landers but one needs to remember to make sure the oat hay dried down enough before they baled it so it would not mold but great feed and the old milk cow did great in production
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terri s
Posted 2009-12-17 9:47 AM (#46147 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?





Posts: 1813

Location: Kansas
I'm guessing it wasn't the good kid's list? Gee Tanq, I still love YOU.
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cpcutter02
Posted 2009-12-18 12:39 PM (#46204 - in reply to #46086)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?




Posts: 83

Location: IL
now this a great subject i have stumped a feed nutritionist i will have dinner tonight with them he has a call to another guy so try to get more info
i have done some checking else were and as long as it has not mature the problem is the beards so tell them to watch for sores in the mouth. but still digging for the best answer
Triticale is similar to wheat. It can be baled for feed. The quality of the feed depends on what growth stage it is baled in. The best would be to bale it while the triticale is in the boot stage. Feed value is very comparable to baled green wheat. It's wonderful for grazing, would be great in a bale if baled at that right time. . .

Triticale Use for Green-feed and Hay

There is little research on triticale being used for green-feed hay. However, the optimum time for harvesting cereals as dry hay is the same as silage stages of cutting, late milk to soft dough stages.

Triticale green-feed and hay can be managed similarly to other green- feed and hay sources. Dried-out, late harvested samples can cause palatability issues for animals and create mouth ulceration. These problems can be limited by using the semi-awnless winter variety Bobcat. Varieties with rough awns should be avoided for green-feed or hay or cut earlier before awns become hard and thick.

Triticale straw can be used in animal systems but, along with wheat straw, in not considered to have as high a feeding quality as barley or oat straw. This is likely because of the higher fibre content and lower energy content and protein.

fond this info onhorse grooming supplies .com they also got a fed value chart from canada with but not know how to put here got check it out




Edited by cpcutter02 2009-12-18 1:05 PM
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slidinstop
Posted 2009-12-18 1:43 PM (#46205 - in reply to #46204)
Subject: RE: Triticale hay ?



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Posts: 9399

The issues with these types of hay is that most "studies" are based on feed yields in cattle and not horses.   Then you get into the whole who funded the study, yadda yadda.

As I stated above it's the sugar content and the mare's age and the fact she's having difficulties, dark urine and whatever other issues that are indicative it just isn't a good choice for this horse.
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